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	<title>Comments on: Come Out from Among Them</title>
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	<link>http://robert.williamsonline.us/2005/07/going-back-to-the-start-come-out-from-among-them/</link>
	<description>I am crucified with Christ, and yet I live</description>
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		<title>By: DErifter</title>
		<link>http://robert.williamsonline.us/2005/07/going-back-to-the-start-come-out-from-among-them/#comment-1155</link>
		<dc:creator>DErifter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Aug 2005 23:34:35 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Well I don&#039;t disagree with you. The key, as you noted,  is &quot;rightly understood&quot;. That&#039;s why I mentioned the sense of &quot;permission&quot; I get from Paul&#039;s letter to the Corinthians. Right now sitting here at my computer I have a bit of clarity, but sometimes my notions about separation become blurred when I get to feeling like I need to gain credibility with a particular person or group. I guess what I&#039;m trying to say is clearer in my mind than it is in my words.

 Have you heard the story about this farmer (I hope I remember enough of it to make my point...) who sees wild birds out in the freezing cold of winter, and he tries to help them by leading them into his barn where they&#039;d be warm. But when he goes to open the barn door, the birds get frightened and hop farther from the barn. Eventually he says to himself, &quot;If only I could become one of them, then they&#039;d follow me and they wouldn&#039;t be scared, and I could lead them to the safety of the barn. And the moral of the story is that that&#039;s what Jesus did in becoming one of us.

 Okay, that&#039;s the basic principle I&#039;m after here. Except the tension I spoke of comes in being enough like the unbelieving person/group I&#039;m trying to reach so that they&#039;ll listen, but without dishonoring my Father in the process. The tension is COMPLETELY in my own understanding of the situation at that time. Can I do this or be here without dishonoring God? And the permission I get and the clarity I gain from 1 Corinthians (at least the way I read it) is yes I can do that and be there if my goal is true and I don&#039;t get so focused on gaining their trust that I lose sight of why I&#039;m there.

 There are lots of people who welcome the reading of scripture and the discussion of biblical principles, mostly believers. But I don&#039;t find a lot of UNbelievers who are that eager to waste their time talking about God. If I started spouting scripture where I work, I&#039;d be nicknamed &quot;The Preacher&quot; in no time and seen as a religious wacko. I&#039;d be separate but with no audience. If I blend in, I&#039;m a commando behind enemy lines. They&#039;re not laughing at me, they listen. I have an audience. No, they don&#039;t all listen, but some do. Like Paul said, &quot;...so that by all means I might save SOME&quot;.

 By all means. There&#039;s my permission: Whatever it takes. I HAVE come out from among them, but now I&#039;m going back in. So Robert I&#039;ve been agreeing with you the whole time. The tension is in my mind. Maybe I could take something for it..... :)

 By the way, the title of your blog is what drew me in. Very clever.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well I don&#8217;t disagree with you. The key, as you noted,  is &#8220;rightly understood&#8221;. That&#8217;s why I mentioned the sense of &#8220;permission&#8221; I get from Paul&#8217;s letter to the Corinthians. Right now sitting here at my computer I have a bit of clarity, but sometimes my notions about separation become blurred when I get to feeling like I need to gain credibility with a particular person or group. I guess what I&#8217;m trying to say is clearer in my mind than it is in my words.</p>
<p> Have you heard the story about this farmer (I hope I remember enough of it to make my point&#8230;) who sees wild birds out in the freezing cold of winter, and he tries to help them by leading them into his barn where they&#8217;d be warm. But when he goes to open the barn door, the birds get frightened and hop farther from the barn. Eventually he says to himself, &#8220;If only I could become one of them, then they&#8217;d follow me and they wouldn&#8217;t be scared, and I could lead them to the safety of the barn. And the moral of the story is that that&#8217;s what Jesus did in becoming one of us.</p>
<p> Okay, that&#8217;s the basic principle I&#8217;m after here. Except the tension I spoke of comes in being enough like the unbelieving person/group I&#8217;m trying to reach so that they&#8217;ll listen, but without dishonoring my Father in the process. The tension is COMPLETELY in my own understanding of the situation at that time. Can I do this or be here without dishonoring God? And the permission I get and the clarity I gain from 1 Corinthians (at least the way I read it) is yes I can do that and be there if my goal is true and I don&#8217;t get so focused on gaining their trust that I lose sight of why I&#8217;m there.</p>
<p> There are lots of people who welcome the reading of scripture and the discussion of biblical principles, mostly believers. But I don&#8217;t find a lot of UNbelievers who are that eager to waste their time talking about God. If I started spouting scripture where I work, I&#8217;d be nicknamed &#8220;The Preacher&#8221; in no time and seen as a religious wacko. I&#8217;d be separate but with no audience. If I blend in, I&#8217;m a commando behind enemy lines. They&#8217;re not laughing at me, they listen. I have an audience. No, they don&#8217;t all listen, but some do. Like Paul said, &#8220;&#8230;so that by all means I might save SOME&#8221;.</p>
<p> By all means. There&#8217;s my permission: Whatever it takes. I HAVE come out from among them, but now I&#8217;m going back in. So Robert I&#8217;ve been agreeing with you the whole time. The tension is in my mind. Maybe I could take something for it&#8230;.. :)</p>
<p> By the way, the title of your blog is what drew me in. Very clever.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert</title>
		<link>http://robert.williamsonline.us/2005/07/going-back-to-the-start-come-out-from-among-them/#comment-1154</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Aug 2005 13:56:39 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I don&#039;t think there is a tension between separation and evangelism &lt;i&gt;rightly understood&lt;/i&gt;.  God does not give us conflicting commands.

There&#039;s no reason to understand separation as sitting &quot;inside the church walls and yell[ing] at sinners to repent&quot;.  I don&#039;t think anything I wrote / quoted suggests that as an appropriate model, so I wonder where you got it from?

God is a God of paradoxes.  You gain your life by losing it.  The first shall be last.  Christ defeated sin by laying down His life.  And in this case, we win the world through separation.  It is by virtue of our separation that our light is visible - on a lampstand, and not under a basket - so that people can see us and then God.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think there is a tension between separation and evangelism <i>rightly understood</i>.  God does not give us conflicting commands.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s no reason to understand separation as sitting &#8220;inside the church walls and yell[ing] at sinners to repent&#8221;.  I don&#8217;t think anything I wrote / quoted suggests that as an appropriate model, so I wonder where you got it from?</p>
<p>God is a God of paradoxes.  You gain your life by losing it.  The first shall be last.  Christ defeated sin by laying down His life.  And in this case, we win the world through separation.  It is by virtue of our separation that our light is visible &#8211; on a lampstand, and not under a basket &#8211; so that people can see us and then God.</p>
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		<title>By: DErifter</title>
		<link>http://robert.williamsonline.us/2005/07/going-back-to-the-start-come-out-from-among-them/#comment-1153</link>
		<dc:creator>DErifter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Aug 2005 03:44:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://robert.williamsonline.us/?p=812#comment-1153</guid>
		<description>Interesting post.
There is a strange tension in this, because as you mentioned, the world is also our mission field. I sometimes find a sense of &quot;permission&quot; to go farther than I&#039;m comfortable with in that regard, in Paul&#039;s all-out quest to &quot;save some&quot; (1 Cor 9). It seems safer to sit inside the church walls and yell at the sinners to repent and behave, than to be a friend (not necessarily mentor) to prostitutes and addicts and loudmouthed punks. It would be safer for a warrior to stay at home than to go into battle too, but then he&#039;s not fulfilling his purpose.

 It occurs to me that while the warrior is on the battlefield he&#039;s fighting those around him. On OUR battlefield, we befriend those around us because our battle is not with them, it&#039;s FOR them. &quot;We battle not against flesh and blood...&quot;

 Thanks for getting me thinking. Blessings to you!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting post.<br />
There is a strange tension in this, because as you mentioned, the world is also our mission field. I sometimes find a sense of &#8220;permission&#8221; to go farther than I&#8217;m comfortable with in that regard, in Paul&#8217;s all-out quest to &#8220;save some&#8221; (1 Cor 9). It seems safer to sit inside the church walls and yell at the sinners to repent and behave, than to be a friend (not necessarily mentor) to prostitutes and addicts and loudmouthed punks. It would be safer for a warrior to stay at home than to go into battle too, but then he&#8217;s not fulfilling his purpose.</p>
<p> It occurs to me that while the warrior is on the battlefield he&#8217;s fighting those around him. On OUR battlefield, we befriend those around us because our battle is not with them, it&#8217;s FOR them. &#8220;We battle not against flesh and blood&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p> Thanks for getting me thinking. Blessings to you!</p>
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