Here’s a statement on the Tenets of Biblical Patriarchy by Doug Philips, Phil Lancaster, and RC Sproul Jr.
There are a couple of minor points I am not sure of. In particular:
The modern preference for grouping children exclusively with their age mates for educational and social purposes is contrary to scriptural wisdom and example.
I generally agree, but I think SOME age based grouping is perfectly appropriate. I do not believe that one hour of age-based Sunday School is “contrary to scriptural wisdom and example”. The statement does not say that it is, per se, but I thought I’d point it out.
Until she is given in marriage, a daughter continues under her father?s authority and protection.
I am not sure about this. I don’t see enough Biblical support to say that an unmarried woman in her 30s ought to live at home and be under her father’s authority. I’m not saying they are wrong, just that I’m not sure about it.
Our oldest daughter is almost 27 and has been on her own for 4 years now. She has struggled to make ends meet the entire time and is unsure of what she should do with her life. I’ve struggled within myself as I’ve taken a more Hebrew approach to family in the last few years and question whether or not we should’ve pushed her into the world unprepared (although we ignorantly thought we had prepared her, she wasn’t really ready). I’m torn on this one, but see more biblical examples of women staying under their father’s roof in Scripture than not. The times are different, but I still think it might be wiser to look back in history on some issues like this one. Just my humble $.02.
I have no objection to claims that it is wiser to do so. It’s fine to discuss various approaches to see which one seems wiser. I’d probably be on your side.
I’m just saying, I don’t see enough _Biblical_ support to make it a tenet of _Biblical_ patriarchy. But I could be wrong. I do see that the Biblical norm in the Old Testament at least was for women to generally be under the protection and care of men. I just don’t know how that translates to our lives, or even if it does.
I?ve taken a more Hebrew approach to family
I certainly won’t question the value of the traditional Jewish society and family. But, kind of in line with that first paragraph, Hebrew culture is not the same as Biblical. It is not necessarily normative for us.
In one of the Basement Tapes, RC was talking about how he was sitting in a Sunday School class once where the teacher was discussing worship. And the whole thing was based around the _synagogue_. The synagogue was a Jewish invention, and is not necessarily appropriate for us to follow. Certainly it’s not mandatory that we follow it.
I’ve seen a few comments in family-oriented mailing lists and such about “the Hebrew form of education” as opposed to “the Greek model” and things like that. There may be a lot of wisdom there. Certainly the ancient Jews had a lot more light of God’s revelation than the pagan Greeks. But “Hebrew” and “Biblical” are two different things, and we need to be sure we keep a distinction. We can be authoritative when speaking of what the Bible says, but not when speaking of what the Jews did.
Rest assured, Robert, that I seek to put Scripture over any thoughts I might have, including what I’ve learned about Hebrew thinking. I’m still fairly ignorant, but desire to please the LORD first and foremost. I have plenty to learn in this area and am open to rebuke if I stray from Scripture, so I appreciate you pointing out anything you feel is error. There are soooo many opinions online from so many very dedicated, God-fearing people who sometimes see Scripture totally differently that at times I wonder who is right, ya know? It’s frustrating when two opposite points are made (using the scriptures) and both sound right. How do you cope with that? It frustrates me to no end.
Kim, I’m sorry, I certainly didn’t mean to be rebuking or pointing out errors in anything at all, and especially not anything you wrote.
All I was trying, and failing, and probably will still fail, to say is that not everything that is wise or good is Biblical, in the sense that the Bible does not explicitly teach it. It’s neither Biblical or unbiblical. Perhaps extrabiblical. It still may be good and true and wise, and consequently godly, but that’s a different question.
Just like I don’t think we should call one system of (not) feeding babies “Growing Kids _God’s_ Way”, I don’t think we should put extrabiblical, but still wise and right and good and sound, statements in something with the word “Biblical” in its title.
Good points, Robert. I agree totally that we should not be guilty of creating traditions or what have you that is extra-biblical and then call it biblical. Which is why I chose to use the term “Hebrew approach” instead of “biblical”. I struggled with that in my first post. Wasn’t sure exactly what to call it. I wasn’t sure it *was* biblical yet, but felt it came far closer to biblical than the “dump-your-kids-out-into-the-cold-cruel-world-as-soon-as-they’re-18″ mentality that the world has. Especially pertaining to daughters.
I’m really not a great communicator so I don’t always get my point across well (ask my husband! lol!). This is yet another example of that.
Anyway, my original point was that I can see the foolishness in sending a daughter out into the world on her own if the parents’ desire is to teach her to be a “keeper at home” because it forces her into the working world mentality. I greatly desire for my daughter to marry a godly man and keep a home. And I know she wants that very thing. So I’ve been in a quandry about how to rectify this situation. My hope is that in a couple of years we can purchase a place in the country where we will have room for her to come back home. Right now there is no chance of that.
Well, that’s where I’m coming from. I greatly respect your opinions and find we agree on most things. Hope I was a little clearer this time. If not, well, straighten me out again. :-)
where we will have room for her to come back home
Should’ve added to live until she does marry.
I can see the foolishness in sending a daughter out into the world on her own if the parents? desire is to teach her to be a ?keeper at home? because it forces her into the working world mentality.
I think you are right on! It does not make a whole lot of sense to take girls and teach them to be like men, if that’s not what we really think they should do.
Am I being too sexist if I say one of the primary differences between masculinity and femininity is _independence_? I believe men are called to take the initiative and to be more independent, whereas women are called to be responsive to men’s initiative and supportive of him. (I know we are interdependent – 1 Cor 10:11-12 – but I’m speaking of degress and not absolutes.)
So when we take a woman and teach her to support herself financially and manage her own home (not in the same way that a wife keeps her family’s home), are we doing anything other than teaching her to be masculine? We teach her to be independent, to be aggressive, to be self-sufficient, etc., and then expect her later to gracefully submit to a husband and thrive in the domestic sphere. It’s not quite logical.
“We teach her to be independent, to be aggressive, to be self-sufficient, etc., and then expect her later to gracefully submit to a husband and thrive in the domestic sphere.”
Right! Now, it * can * be done, but it’s definitely harder. I was a work-outside-the-home mom for many years, but really never felt right about it, even as an unbeliever. Now I’m more determined than ever to raise my daughters to be home-focused. And I plan on keeping my younger daughters at home until they marry. It takes so much pressure off of them when they don’t have to worry about making their rent and such on their income. And if by chance they don’t marry, they’ll still be taken care of, as will we be by having them at home to help. But I tell ya, our culture does * not * understand this way of thinking, and I’m sure we’ll look quite odd. But that’s okay.
Oops! Goofed on the asterisks!
Goofed on the asterisks!
Actually it’s my fault. I have Textile installed which interprets asterisks to mean “put stuff in bold”. I’ll fix the formatting of your comment.