Comments on: New Photographs Show US Soldiers Littering, Kicking Puppies

By: Jared

Jared — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

You probably already know what I think about the prison abuse brouhaha.
But I am disappointed in anyone, from any side, comparing these admittedly perverse acts to the brutal murder of Nick Berg. Some dude on my solo site is even arguing in a recent thread that Berg’s murder is “nothing” compared to what happened to the prisoners at Abu Ghraib.
Say what?
Pointing him to my post denouncing the folks who are shrugging off the prison abuse (for a bit of context regarding my personal feelings), I tried to persuade him that the brutality of sawing someone’s head off is far worse than anything those prison pictures have demonstrated took place.

Again, not that we should be comparing these things anyway, but how can folks — the media included — think the prison abuse story is more shocking than the Nick Berg story? The vast majority of Americans and American servicepeople do not wish to sexually abuse or humiliate the Iraqi people, whether they be freemen or detainees. But the entire population of Islamic terrorism wish every one of us as dead as Mr. Berg.
That’s a significant difference, IMO.

By: Robert Williams

Robert Williams — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

It should go without saying that Abu Ghraib is very bad. I think we ought to make sure we have the full story and not jump to any conclusions as to who did what or why or to how many people. I do not understand those who feel compelled to dismiss it as no big deal. It _is_ a big deal; maybe even bigger because we have the moral high ground generally.

I agree w/ you regarding the difference between Berg and Abu Ghraib.

By: Michael Gallaugher

Michael Gallaugher — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

Your thoughts reflect mine, and most americans. Well said. If I could ask an off topic question – what is the purpose of putting a line thought certain words? I see this sometimes on blogs, what’s the purpose?

By: Rick Horowitz

Rick Horowitz — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

I find it ironic that you would quote anyone’s Bible after having belittled the experience of those at Abu Ghraib. Even Donald Rumsfeld, whom I might expect to want to minimize that series of events, especially in light of the fact that “the full story” is showing that this was apparently “justified” at pretty high levels, has not done that. President Bush himself has condemned what happened.

Anyone who belittles what happened to Pearl or Berg is a reprehensible animal — I don’t care what one’s political views, or even one’s views of just this undeclared war, are — and I wouldn’t argue that belittling the experience of those at Abu Ghraib is on anywhere near the same level as a beheading.

But to minimize it and then quote the Bible as the justification for doing so….

By: Rick Horowitz

Rick Horowitz — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

One correction. Instead of

…I wouldn?t argue that belittling the experience of those at Abu Ghraib is on anywhere near the same level as a beheading.

I meant to say,

…I wouldn?t argue that the experience of those at Abu Ghraib is on anywhere near the same level as a beheading.

Sorry.

By: Bill

Bill — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

Rick

I think the quotation Robert used is a good one -

?He who gives an answer before he hears, It is folly and shame to him.?

This is why we don’t just drag the Abu Ghraib perpetrators to the nearest tree and lynch ‘em (which some of us, in our worst moments, probably wanted to do when these photos came out). It’s a call for wise justice, not emotional retribution, and I think it was very appropriate.

Everyone is walking on eggshells these days, not wanting to appear in the least as supporting the idiots at Abu Ghraib. I think Robert made it clear that he considers the Abu Ghraib offenses reprehensible, even as he satirized not the offenses but the media coverage of them.

By: Robert Williams

Robert Williams — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

Hi Rick. I don’t mean to make light of the abuse of Iraqi prisoners by a few US soldiers, not one bit. I tried to be very clear that their abuses were utterly inexcusable _even if_ they were ordered to do so. There are mighty few situations where that kind of abuse could be remotely justified.

My thoughts, as Bill explained, were more along the comparisons to My Lai, the Inquisition, and so on. Abu Ghraib is bad, but it’s not as bad as those. And it’s not comparable to Berg or Pearl either. If I had to choose to be beheaded, or sodomized with a glow stick, bring on the glow stick.

We should be able to compare this to other atrocities, and point out that it is not as bad as some incidents. And we should be willing to gather all the facts and make decisions based on more than a handful of pictures. Saying so doesn’t mean I’m making light of the situation. My emotional reaction is to favor public hanging for the soldiers who did this. But we need to be sure we have all the facts first. Hence the quote from Proverbs.

By: sarafem

sarafem — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000